General Carowinds discussion
By Hydratorofury4life
#91645
I'm officially now thinking that carowinds will make vortex floor less for 2018. At first, I didn't think so because vortex is such a small ride and would probably be relocated or demolished rather than making it floor less but now, after seeing cga announce their vortex to be floorless, I have no dout now that vortex at carowinds will get it next. I find this sad because I actually really like vortex. Vortex, nighthawk, and Carolina cyclone all are in my top 3 for most underrated coasters. I was always told they were all trash but when I rode them I was very surpeised. Vortex was super fun and smooth I had zero problems with it and, Carolina cyclone made me gray out if you sit in the very back on the very right. Nighthawk I rode in the back but I could see why people dislike it. Nighthawk has a weird roughness to it like it doesn't bother you but, it is still there. I had to try to notice it. It didn't bother me but I could feel that it was there. But back on the topic of floorless vortex, could Centurion be a name? Or did that trademark fall through?
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By FamousAmos
#91656
All nighthawk needs is for the wheel hubs to be re-fitted to the track. All you have to do is stand at the station and watch the train exit and go around that curve before the lift hill. If you watch the wheels, the only wheels that touch the rails are the "Road Wheels". The other sets of wheels are not spinning at all. For B&M's, the wheels are always touching the rails. Just for comparison.
By RollerBee
#91657
FamousAmos wrote:All nighthawk needs is for the wheel hubs to be re-fitted to the track. All you have to do is stand at the station and watch the train exit and go around that curve before the lift hill. If you watch the wheels, the only wheels that touch the rails are the "Road Wheels". The other sets of wheels are not spinning at all. For B&M's, the wheels are always touching the rails. Just for comparison.

Reptar is the same way as is Hurler and Thunder Road, the upstop wheels don't touch the rails except at certain times during the ride. Goldrusher doesn't have upstop wheels at all, I am pretty sure Cyclone has wheels that don't touch the rail either as well as Cobra.

I imagine that having the upstop wheels touching the rails increases drag and friction. Also I will note that all roller coasters probably deform to some degree under the added g-forces. I wouldn't say with any certainity that the wheels not touching the rails is a deciding factor of roughness. Look at Vortex, it is just as rough as Cyclone if not worse.
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By FamousAmos
#91658
Vortex is a different thing altogether. And the solution is simple.

The seats adjust up and down obviously. And that right there is why it shakes so much..
Unfortunately, there is no side to side support for the seats, which causes them to shake and rattle during the ride. I've had to ride it almost every day this season, so I take note of these things. If B&M would have done the following, it would have been a much smoother ride.

1) in between each seat (and on the outside seats) add a pole of some sort to the car.
2) Then, on the adjustable seat part, add rubber wheels that will roll on said rail.
3) this simple addition would prevent the seats from shaking so much and would add around 500 pounds (or less) to each train.
By Edwardo
#91659
At the time prior Flying Dutchmen coasters (like Nighthawk) and SLCs (even family ones like at Carowinds) were built, Vekoma did not have a patented spring mechanism on their wheels like B&M (and others) have to keep the wheels tight against the rails on all sides. I believe the company does now have their own mechanism and have patented it. That is why you see the gaps between wheel and rail on the coasters, because without paying to license it from another mfg, Vekoma had no way to (legally) do what B&M have done from the get go.

Vekoma coaster's notorious roughness comes from the fact that going thru elements causes the wheel bogie to basically slam up and down due to the lack of that spring loaded mechanism. This is most notable, to me, on T3 at Kentucky Kingdom. They have newer Kumbak trains that have better restraints than the old ride (actually a prototype SLC) had, and while there is no neck banging, you can feel the train banging and push/pulling in the elements.

I want to ride on the SLC at Morey's soon now that they're replacing the trains (once again) with even newer Vekoma models as well as all of the track with Vekoma's new track style. It could potentially be B&M smooth now that Vekoma is in a position to have worked out the smoothness.

Vortex was not rough when it opened, but over the years it has gotten that way. As has their other stand up coasters.

#SorryNotSorry for all the edits, Wormy. :D
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By FamousAmos
#91661
With Vortex, I would still consider the seat mechanisms to contribute to some of the roughness. If you ride in the back and watch the seats throughout the ride layout, they do nothing but shake rather violently from side to side. If there were something to support them, they wouldn't do this. The only way to support them is like I said. To have rails with wheels so the seats can still adjust up and down whilst being laterally supported.

Something else with Vortex, it is built on one giant concrete slab. Unfortunately, it is still settling into the ground. The few days it was closed during this past summer was so they could raise and repair a few footers because that part of the ride's base had sunk into the ground a little more. In a few years, it should be almost done settling into the ground. That's something I found to be interesting.
By Edwardo
#91662
I've been on ever B&M standup except Vortex west. While I don't completely disagree that it's the seat type that contributes, the two (out of their first three) that I've begun on are far rougher than the newer and bigger ones. And they got worse with age. There's just not much you can do under ASTM standards that will fix the older smaller rough ones. That's why I think they're getting new trains for the CF ones.

Riddler, Chang, and ESP Scotcher are all typically Not rough fir B&Ms. they just suck
As coasters, save for scorcher.
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By FamousAmos
#91669
This is something I'm aware of roller.
I was able to help out maintenance to know when to lubricate those joints. When they are dry, they squeak loudly when the train passes over. So I would listen to where they were, then call maintenance and let them know which ones needed lubricating. The entire coaster basically sits on the supports. It's just how B&M use to make their coasters.
Nothing special.

EDIT:
That also explains why as to when the base of the coaster sinks into the ground, it doesn't affect or "crack" the track. Since it is not physically attached to the supports. They can come in and raise the footers up and repair it.
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By coasterbruh
#91670
how long does it take them to come lube it up after you send the beckoning call? I like to say "lube it up" by the way . . . :oops:
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By coasterbruh
#91673
meh . . . I just like the way it sounds lol. So, what do they "lube it up" with?
By RollerBee
#91674
FamousAmos wrote:With Vortex, I would still consider the seat mechanisms to contribute to some of the roughness. If you ride in the back and watch the seats throughout the ride layout, they do nothing but shake rather violently from side to side. If there were something to support them, they wouldn't do this. The only way to support them is like I said. To have rails with wheels so the seats can still adjust up and down whilst being laterally supported.

Something else with Vortex, it is built on one giant concrete slab. Unfortunately, it is still settling into the ground. The few days it was closed during this past summer was so they could raise and repair a few footers because that part of the ride's base had sunk into the ground a little more. In a few years, it should be almost done settling into the ground. That's something I found to be interesting.

How do they raise the footers?
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