General Carowinds discussion
By Capler
#108629
phareous wrote:That's a long time to leave a ride idle if they plan to bring it back...


Yet, it is a long time to leave a ride idle if they plan to remove it. Maybe they are waiting on the Knotts ride numbers to see if a rehab is even worth the expense. This is the reason our Vortex will never get converted. One could make that argument about a RMC conversion as well. Enthusiast love them, but the GP only sees a rehab. Considering how wildly popular CP and CW dives are, it would be a no brainer not to put one here. With the exception of KD, all the big Cedar Fair parks will have a hyper, a giga and a dive.
By Glitch99
#108631
Capler wrote:Yet, it is a long time to leave a ride idle if they plan to remove it. Maybe they are waiting on the Knotts ride numbers to see if a rehab is even worth the expense.

What would they learn from another park's ride numbers? RRR constantly had long lines, even during the week. Existing numbers clearly indicate a refurbish would be almost certain to continue to operate at near-max capacity most of the time. About the only thing they might actually learn is if a new feature or operating concept is as efficient and cost saving as it's projected to be.

I agree that the for-mentioned 3 seasons is an awful long time for a ride to sit awaiting a refurbish, especially a ride where the water channels will only further deteriorate. But it's not unusual to retire a ride, then leave it's remnants in place for multiple seasons until ready to develop the next attraction on the site. Especially something like RRR - assuming the plot of land would remain fenced off regardless, a casual observer wouldnt really know if there was an old ride still back there or not.
By RollerBee
#108632
(At Capler)

No.

You can change the paint job on an existing ride, give it a new name and market as a new ride....
The GP won’t know that it is the same ride.

Gauntlet had low ridership until the first Nick Central expansion then it was popular for few more years.

Hurler and Twisted Timbers are two completely different rides and Hurler is the RMC that got the least change of any of them.

Minus Cedar Fair and KK, the parks want the GP to realize that the RMC Conversions are vastly improved versions of the previous rides. That’s why they take such a lack of creative in naming them.

KK and Cedar Fair went the opposite naming wise, they want SV, TT and Stormchaser not to be living in the shadow of their wooden selves.
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By coasterbruh
#108633
Capler wrote:With the exception of KD, all the big Cedar Fair parks will have a hyper, a giga and a dive.

Not quite. KI has no Dive and Knotts has no Giga and one can argue no Dive coaster either . . .

RollerBee wrote:(At Capler)

No.

You can change the paint job on an existing ride, give it a new name and market as a new ride....
The GP won’t know that it is the same ride.

Gauntlet had low ridership until the first Nick Central expansion then it was popular for few more years.

That is some BS if I ever heard some. Lets forget the addition of a new coaster that basically brought people in the gates. The GP was well aware it wasn't a new ride as they were aware the flume wasn't new either. I am almost sure the ridership on Flying Cobras went up, not because of new paint and a new name but the 4 new rides encompassing it in the area.
By Christopher Mallis
#108634
Glitch99 wrote:
Capler wrote:Yet, it is a long time to leave a ride idle if they plan to remove it. Maybe they are waiting on the Knotts ride numbers to see if a rehab is even worth the expense.

What would they learn from another park's ride numbers? RRR constantly had long lines, even during the week. Existing numbers clearly indicate a refurbish would be almost certain to continue to operate at near-max capacity most of the time. About the only thing they might actually learn is if a new feature or operating concept is as efficient and cost saving as it's projected to be.

I agree that the for-mentioned 3 seasons is an awful long time for a ride to sit awaiting a refurbish, especially a ride where the water channels will only further deteriorate. But it's not unusual to retire a ride, then leave it's remnants in place for multiple seasons until ready to develop the next attraction on the site. Especially something like RRR - assuming the plot of land would remain fenced off regardless, a casual observer wouldnt really know if there was an old ride still back there or not.

As far as ride numbers go, it causes a lot to rehab a ride and do an overhaul, which is why they might wait to see if the money would be worth it.
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By yawetag
#108636
Capler wrote:Yet, it is a long time to leave a ride idle if they plan to remove it. Maybe they are waiting on the Knotts ride numbers to see if a rehab is even worth the expense. This is the reason our Vortex will never get converted. One could make that argument about a RMC conversion as well.

One could, but I don't think they'd be right. RMC conversion is a HUGE change. You aren't "rehabbing" a ride, you're redesigning it. New colors, new name, new track layout.

I'd argue some GP would see it as a brand new ride, not a conversion at all.
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By carowinds.captured
#108637
coasterbruh wrote:
carowinds.captured wrote:
coasterbruh wrote:So in actuality, you're not saying anything. How does the saying go . . . "those that don't know talk and those that know don't".


i said what i said

Which was nothing . . .


You are a such an arrogant ***. People may would post more on here, but all you do is constantly berate other people here. Hope you feel so important sitting behind your keyboard
By jordN1414
#108638
carowinds.captured wrote:
coasterbruh wrote:
carowinds.captured wrote:
i said what i said

Which was nothing . . .


You are a such an arrogant ***. People may would post more on here, but all you do is constantly berate other people here. Hope you feel so important sitting behind your keyboard


Just ignore her as most of us have done for years.
User avatar
By coasterbruh
#108639
carowinds.captured wrote:You are a such an arrogant ***. People may would post more on here, but all you do is constantly berate other people here. Hope you feel so important sitting behind your keyboard

Because I question you and your 4 year out "confirmation" makes me arrogant :wtf: ? I can give you 159 more reasons for you to label me as such but it's pointless. I don't know how new you are in the "theme park" world but when you make outlandish claims about something with NO concrete anything to back you up, you will get challenged and called out. If you're that thin skinned then maybe the internet isn't the place for you.
However, I will leave you with a quote . . .
carowinds.captured wrote:lol there are so many uptight people here....jeez its just a forum to talk :roll:

:clap: :P :wave: :wink:

jordN1414 wrote:Just ignore her as most of us have done for years.

I'm sorry, who are you again :yawn: ? (and by most you mean all 2 of you lol lol :clap: :wave: 8) )

Coasterphreak wrote:Y'all can theorycraft all you want, RRR isn't coming back.

I like this guy lol.

But anyway. The "theory" of it coming back contradicts what has been said about the reason it left in the first place. Now, I know parks can make haste decisions and do a complete 180 degree turn on decisions but I am confident enough to say unless they do a 100% rebuild of RRR (which I doubt because the park has bigger, ground breaking ideas) then it will not be coming back.
By Edwardo
#108640
I love it when people sitting behind their keyboards behind a screen complain about other people behind a keyboard, lol. THATS. RICH.

Trust me when I say Jarvis will tell you exactly to your face what he says on here.
User avatar
By coasterbruh
#108641
People have to realize i'm not here to be "liked". I'm here to be honest and have good time. I may be brash, I may even come off as condescending but you get my point :oops: .

Now, it was mentioned about capacity and how it always kept a line. I would wager that was due to the 6 max capacity boats that usually left the station will less than 6. Now, we're dealing with a ride with the capacity of Ricochet, but with a longer layout. Also (and I've probably said this before) the ride was made in-house. The rafts they created didn't work well so they made smaller ones. Now, you can imagine securing parts and materials for a ride that was built in-house almost 40 years ago.

The ride had become a shell of itself and very hard to maintain. Elements were removed and things stop working. Based on that, I doubt there will be a retheme of any sorts for RRR. A rebuild from ground up is possible. Silver Dollar City is showing how that can be done. But is Carowinds willing to take that risk? It is fairly easy to market an RMC conversion as it really is an entirely new ride and experience but how many will look at a new, ground up rapids as being RRR? how difficult will that be to market?

Knott's is known for nostalgia. The crowd that goes that loves that kinda of stuff that's why they have been focusing on revitalizing the park and emphasizing the ghost town area. Unfortunately, Carowinds isn't known for preservation of old iconic rides as there are no iconic rides at Carowinds worth preserving. So, again, I highly doubt they are waiting 4 years just to patch up a ride and retheme it.
Last edited by coasterbruh on October 2nd, 2019, 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By phareous
#108642
When it first opened it was a lot more exciting...it had wave makers and a whirlpool. Those were removed because it backed the water up. Then they had just the geysers and tunnel with water falls. When I worked there in the 90's, I think there was just one geyser working (which they had to repair). After I left the tunnel caved in, so they removed that and instead pushed out the water near the observation deck to get people wet (after they installed a working filter, which they didn't have for years). Actually prior to that their goal was to not get people wet because the water was so filthy and they would have to pay out for ruining people's clothes.

Anyways, the point is it was never exciting as it was intended to be, but it still got to a stable point where it was still a fun ride. After they took the tunnel out, it lost a lot though. If they had rebuilt the tunnel and added some more geysers, I think it would have been fine (other than the capacity issues).

They still have the option of retheming and upgrading, but they could never fix the capacity issues because you're stuck with 6 people boats due to the trough width, and there really is no room there to put in a turntable without redoing the trough too
By Edwardo
#108643
coasterbruh wrote:People have to realize i'm not here to be "liked".


QFT
By Capler
#108644
I honestly feel people tend to discount a rehab/refurbishment, if they are aware of what it was previously. You can get away with a relocated ride and people will think it is brand new, especially if you cleaned it up. But once a coaster develops a bad reputation, it's very difficult for many people to get past that, I don't care how much you improve the experience.

I bet folk the average Kings Dominion attendee does not see Twisted Timbers as being a new coaster, it's Hurler with a new name, and some new stuff added.

A conversation would go something like this.

Person 1: Hey, are you renewing your season pass for next year?
Person 2: Not sure, all they are doing is fixing up Hurler and giving it a new mane. I might just sit this season out until they get something new.

Here is the alternative conversation...

Person 1: Hey, are you renewing your season pass for next year?
Person 2: Yes, they got this thing called a dive coaster coming where it hangs you over the edge and drops you straight down.

We all know a RMC is a totally different ride, and is more intense, but a wing, dive... would be an easier sell to the GP.

Another thing that could influence people's feelings about RMC's is the bait and switch tactic that is all too common in marketing. New name, new packaging, but the same product. We have become very cynical to this. Again, we all know it is a new experience, but some in the GP could see it as the park trying to pull a fast one.

IMO, this is what hurt the standup conversions the most. It was the really bad reputation of the former ride.
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